welcome to the winning ugly podcast, a place where we are real, raw, entertaining, energizing, and encouraging come experience, real conversations that go deep and relationships that extend through the media to overcome testing times. We can't continue to keep our trials and tragic stories to ourselves. The people you will hear from are facing, they're ugly, stepping out of their comfort zone and sharing their victory. Storms are guarantee in life and when they come, we want to be right here building you up and empowering you to win ugly
Welcome to the winning ugly podcast as always at your host, Trish. And I'm joined by my husband Emory.
Yes, I'm here with, uh, my beautiful wife is always so I'm excited and it's again, it's going to be a good show. I know I'll say that all the time, but I'm really excited about this next guest. It's, it's just going to be epic, so stay tuned.
Yeah. Thanks for joining us today. This podcast has been so life giving to us, hearing the stories of depression, trauma, people pleasing and many more have encouraged us along the way and we hope we are encouraging you as well. We love reading your reviews and seeing how this podcast is helping you. One reviewer wrote winning ugly as such an encouragement, especially if you are in the midst of your own ugly challenge. It is empowering to hear other people share their personal stories of victory. Thank you Merde for AAU for your rating and review. Before we move in, I just want to state that there may be some strong topics that we talk about in this episode, so you may want to give it a listen before your littles to hear it. I think it's called a your muffs. Our next guest is an adopted child that served as country overseas for four years. He came home to Illinois and crumbled for awhile, put the pieces back together and made it to ESPN. Spent 16 years with ESPN. Matthew, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here today. It's an honor to have you, man. I'm, I'm, I'm really excited. I appreciate it. I've been looking for
do this as well. Just a, just a little bit. I know about you. I've been just man chomping at the bit to get this going. So I'm pumped.
That's just a great storyteller. That's right. Exactly. So, Matthew, we're getting to know you along with the listener. So if you would give us in a nutshell of who you are and what you're up to. Sure. So, um, grew up in Urbana,
Illinois. I was the son of a dean at the University of Illinois. Um, and my mom taught the deaf and hearing impaired, uh, was adopted about four and a half months before I was born. Um, and then have a younger brother who's three and a half years younger than me and he was adopted before he was born as well. Um, I am married to Kelly. We have Delaney who is 10 and Layton who is seven. Um, God had me wait awhile cause I was 49 a couple of weeks ago. So, um, the age difference in the children, um, those poor kids, when the rest of the, when they're moving into college to the rest of the kids will be saying, isn't that nice that your grandfather came to help you move in Grandpa? So lively, you know, it's, it's God's timing and um, you can't rush it.
You can't, there's nothing that you can do about it. What you do is just open your heart and your mind and your ears and listen. And so fortunately that's what we've been able to do. Um, I am in software sales. The software that I represent, uh, runs automobile dealerships. And so, um, I've been doing that for about the last five and a half years after almost a 20 year careers. A broadcaster. That's quite a switch. A little bit, bit of a pivot there a little bit. Yeah. I was, uh, actually we were in Lexington, Kentucky and um, I was broadcasting a game and we lost a child while I was on the air. And so, um, Kelly and I just decided that it was time for us to make a little bit of a change. And so that's what we did. We'll bring us back to those ESPN years.
What was it like to be, um, to work for such a big corporation? Yeah, so the first thing I want to clarify is I worked for affiliates. Okay. So I never made it to the mother ship. Um, did an internship many, many moons ago with Mike Greenberg, um, formerly of Mike and Mike in the morning. Yeah. And now with, uh, get up, um, we both intern for a guy named Lou Kanellis at Wmaq in Chicago, which was the home of the Chicago bowls. And when we turn the clock back, it was during the first three championships and working alongside him, you could tell he was going to be great when he was 24 years old and very evident. He was just unreal. Um, and so, um, I did affiliates, uh, which was outstanding. I mean, it was such a blessing. Um, Michigan State University, the University of Tennessee, University of Kentucky, University of Illinois.
Um, I mainly did play by play for baseball and volleyball. Um, and, and just absolutely loved it. Did a ton of interviews. Um, did a ton of just a sports talk show. Um, but I don't want to ever misconstrue people as much as the mother ship would have been fun. I'm not sure. I'm cut out for Connecticut. Yeah. Bristol, right? Yes. That's it man. Yeah. Stovers as well. I do. Yeah. Actually, when I got to Korea, I'm the manager of the station, cause I say station, it's not a radio station, it's not a television station. We do both in the military out of the same building. He pulled me off to the side and he said, can you do voices? And I said, yeah, you know, I'm not bad. And he said, I have a contract here in Korea. I'm reading children's books. I need Igor.
And so I was he or for Winnie the Pooh for two years while we were over in Korea, we did a ton of, um, Korean companies at the time that were trying to get their products into the United States would need somebody to voice their promotional materials that they were sending over. And so we did a ton of that as well. And I fell in love with it. And, uh, I've been doing voice work now for almost 30 years. So before we move into your story, we always ask our guests to few lighthearted questions. So the first one is the last place you vacationed or visited a. So my college roommate is a developer down in Destin and two years ago, last week they lost their 16 year old son and they lost him at home. And so they cannot be in their home in understandably on July or excuse me, June 9th.
And they have a Kanye coarser, which is an Italian mastiff. Know what it is? One of the most beautiful dogs you will ever see on the Corso islands, I think. But it looks like something that the devil would have on a chain. I know I'm in the dogs. You are, and you've, you actually say how much you like these. I've always wanted that or the presto. Canaria also gorgeous. This is awesome. So we go down and Babysit Rocco, who is such a teddy bear that when you call his name and telling me he's a good boy, he starts to pee. Oh. So he is not going to hurt you at all, although he does weigh 138 pounds and he has his ears cropped and he looks intimidating, looks sinister, which I love to take him for a walk because I'm covered in tattoos and they're in kind of a, they're in the Sandestin in the gated area where like the garages cost a half a million.
So I take my shirt off and put a dip in and put this dog on it, chain tattoo dipped and we just start walking through this neighborhood and these people are like, oh my gosh, what did Chad and his family invite in? We should call it. Um, uh, so we were in, uh, two weeks ago and we try and go as often as possible. They're going through a really tough time as you can imagine. Um, and so being a very prayerful family, we try and put our arms around them as much as we possibly can. Well, a hidden talent. Do you have hidden talent? I'm sure you have a hidden talent you look like together. Have it hidden down. Uh, I mean I can do a million different voices. Um, but we've already talked about that. Technically not hidden. Uh, so not so much anymore. No.
Do you remember your first job as a kid? Yes, absolutely. Um, being from corn country USA when you are 14 years old, as long as mom and dad will sign a waiver, you can detasseling corn. And so for those that don't know what that means, believe it or not, there are male and female corn plants. I am learning so much today. Yup. So you plant two rows of male and then eight rows of female, four to one ratio, which I'm into that party. But um, those two male rows will pollinate the eight female rows. Once they do you want to get the tassels or basically what gives them their male portion? You want to get that out of there. And so they would stick us on a machine and believe it or not, they are baskets that roll through the rows of corn and you're walking along pulling tassels or riding along, pulling tassels off of the corn.
You. We would wake up at four 30 in the morning. You had to be on the bus by 5:00 AM at 14 years old. That's a big deal at 14. And we usually got home about nine 30 or 10 at night. Are you serious? And I made $183 a week. And was the happiest that rode that. That's good money on the plan. Are you more of an Instagram guy? If Facebook don't do either. Awesome. Bye Man. Linkedin, Linkedin, the professional 39 for the professional guys. I'm 49. Are you a coffee or tea guy? Neither. No, it's been the best little question here. We put it on. Okay. Let me know what's happening. You walked in with a sparkling flavored sparkling water brought to you by Lacroix. Let's right drink. Um, I mean, no, it's what Kelly purchased. And so I, um, spoken like a good husband. I, uh, I don't like things that bring me up too much anymore.
Totally understand. Again, not, nope, there's no foreshadowing there though. You like to hang out at night or your night owl? Early Bird? No. To me, one of life's biggest blessings is, um, reading to our children. And because you give me a children's book and a little time to think about it, and the characters come to life, it's not just dad reading to them. Each of the characters has a voice. And, and so as they're getting older, it's going away. They used to have like, you could see the sparkles in their eyes from these characters to lie a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and they would, you know, one of them has her head on the right side of your chest and he has his head on the left side of your chest and they fall asleep. And to hear that breathing, I, I, I, the rest of the world is gone. Even if I just lay there for five to 10 minutes, well, Kelly sat about 80% of the time you fall asleep with them. I want to be one of those people that takes the time to listen to your children breathe. I'm an early at night because of the value of what the children off. They fall asleep in our bed every night. People tell me I'm crazy, I don't care. I am going to enjoy every second.
Matthew, let's move into your story of addiction. Your addiction came in many forms and it was 29 years ago. You were addicted to cocaine. Yup. And you stated you were the, and still am an addict.
You are. You are. I'm still addicted to cocaine. I don't use it. Right. One of the meanest things about cocaine, you'll hear of an alcoholic building a tolerance and um, first time it takes them one beer and then the next time it takes two in the next time it takes three. And then if an alcoholic stops drinking for
awhile, it goes back down. Now with cocaine. So where I left off is what it would take because I love it. I was really good at it. And um, so I cannot be within miles of it.
Yeah, that's what you stated that you were the best around. Yep. And I'm okay. And then later on in life you became addicted to money and success and we'll get into that later. But I want you to take us back, um, to that specific moment where, um, you turned into an addict. Um,
yeah, I know exactly the instance. So one of my great friends growing up, um, had one of the more horrific things. Um, he came from a really neat family, comes from a really neat family, very tight knit. My part of the world growing up in the 70s, farm farmers have a belief that Sunday is family day and we were not allowed to leave our property on Sunday except for church. Um, and we're just good old fashioned Christian, nothing out of the norm. But my mom and dad believed that the Lord say was family day, as do many of the families in that area still to this day, but certainly as I was growing up. Um, and so my buddy Carl, um, they were having their family day on a Sunday and it was, um, just after dark on a Sunday night, um, popcorn, apple slices, big blanket, whole families watching a movie, intruder breaks in, has the wrong home and shoots and kills his father in front of the entire family and realized he had the wrong house after he shot him. Uh, there's no redos yet. You're so as each of the children turned 18, they had a trust from the life insurance policy. Okay.
my, both of my grandparents had left and they weren't gone yet at this time, but they had set up things for my brother and I, so we had a trust as well. I don't want people to get the idea of a silver spoon, but we had money to help us through college. Yeah. Not Hundreds of thousands, but we had a little spending money through college.
so I'll never forget the day that Carl got his trust.
he drove over to my house because there's no cell phones and 89 and, um,
said, hey, I got my trust today. Let's go. Have some fun now in high school we'd have a couple of beers. Um, maybe lefthanded cigarette, anything other than that was completely out of the question, right? No Way. No how, forget it.
he had rented a house. He didn't have a dad. His mom had moved to Arizona from Illinois. All of his friends were in Illinois, so he wants to stay. So he rented the house and when we walked into the house, he had a pile of $2,500 worth of cocaine that he had just purchased a pile up pile, like a small mountain. He just had the thought, I've got some money doing it and I didn't know. Okay. So I had no idea. He had started already, didn't have some money. He had an unbelievable, a lot of money. So he had started
already. You were not aware of what you were walking into had? No, I just thought he was going to show me the house that he had ran it. So he had one of those mirrors that's probably three feet tall and two and a half feet wide. And he had six lines that were, as long as the mirror was tall of cocaine. If you know anything about cocaine, you only need about an inch long. These were three feet. Wow. That was
a month. Arm Span. Yeah. So we're heading into a dark area here pretty quickly. Oh No,
not for a while. It was his light. His light could be rather, I mean, I, it was a feeling that, so each of us finished three of those three foot lines that night over about a 30 hour
period. But no, no, no. Pause there because you walked in, you see that there's no way in your mind you were like, heck yeah, no, I was not. No. Okay. Well then how did you jump into that moment? You mean? Yeah, I mean it's, you know, think about like the kids that you grew up with. If it was Carl all of a sudden it almost seemed okay. Right. I understand. Okay. So you're there that night, it took you 30 hours to go through, um, three of these with our mouth still there. And at this point, I mean, are other people coming over? So y'all are having this party or, okay. Just you and him snorting cocaine 30 hours. So how did it become a problem? Oh, it the second I tried it. That's when you become addicted. You were in love with it. Oh Gosh.
Yeah. Uh, and um, you know, being adopted, no idea what my family history was in terms of addiction. Sure. Um, but yeah, no, it, it, I mean one little whiff of that and it was game on cowboy.
It was, yeah. Okay. How long did this last, um, for you actively using it?
About 10 months. Anything longer than that? And I was, I mean, I'm amazed I'm alive as it is, but, uh, I had a $50,000 trust fund from my dad's parents that I blew through in seven of those months. And that was with Carl's money from his family tragedy as well. And this was mostly spent on cocaine, not mostly 100% of it. 99. We had to get gas to get to the dealer. Yeah. We didn't eat. Um, I lost 40 something pounds in a matter of about eight months. I hadn't seen my parents. I, I kind of withdrew from everything for awhile. And, um, when I finally hit rock bottom, my mom fainted because she didn't know who I was.
Did she know you had an, um, an addiction? Okay. So she didn't know you had an addiction? It was probably obvious. I'm assume you look different and Oh, you look like a train wreck, you know.
Um, after a while, I mean, for the first eight months, no one had any idea. I went to work every day. Um, went to church every Sunday. Really? Um, well, you know, we were talking about it before the broadcast, but one, Martha Quinn was one of the first veejays on MTV and she very famously asked David Lee Roth, do you have a cocaine? And he said, absolutely not. I can afford it. And the more you think about it, it's only a problem when a, you can't get it, or B, you can't afford it. And, and in the eyes of a drug addict, sure, it's not a problem. If you can get it in afforded. No, it's not a problem when things get right.
I'm getting the hi, I'm looking for exact money in the bank. How to manage it. Yeah. Cause I know nothing about this. But when do you do this? And before you go during the day, whenever you want like drunk driving,
it's like having an espresso but just about every five minutes,
which is why you don't like coffee or tea. Oh, okay. Sorry. We offered you that. Oh, you're good. When was the rock bottom moment for you? I mean, you said it only lasted 10 months actively using it, but
what was that? Rock bottom. So we rented a house on the University of Illinois campus. You and Carl a? No. Oh nope. W thankfully he and I never resided together. That was a good thing. We would have been dead. Yeah. Um, and so I would get to the point where after four straight days, and I'm talking 24 hours a day, your body's pretty rank. You would think you've got to go home and hose off. Um, and so I would go home. My roommates would be like, did you go on vacation again? Where did you seem to go on like a four day vacation? About twice a week running. You're disappearing. Cool. Yeah, but yet we hear you on the radio every afternoon. So we know that. Yeah. Like what the heck? I met a girl, I've been staying at her place. It was just an easy, oh, I get it.
They stay out of it too. They see out of it yet at that point it's like, okay, that's none of my business. Right. So it was Christmas break and if you know anything about huge universities, Christmas break, especially at this time where travel wasn't as easy, you would have 1500 kids from Asia still on campus and the other 37,500 students are gone. And it feels like a ghost town because the University of Illinois is a very defined campus and less you need something on campus. There's no reason to go there even though it's in Champaign-Urbana. It's kind of its own little capsule. Yeah. Got You. And, um, I was so far down the foxhole that I spent about two hours with a revolver in my mouth. I can still taste the metal. Wow. And it was cocked. All it needed was just a little squeeze of the trigger.
And um, for some reason, well it's because of our, our background, our upbringing. Um, I was probably 10 to 15 seconds from pulling the trigger and I said, God, if you can give me one good reason, just one, I'll listen. And as if someone, as if someone had taken a picture out of a photo op, my mom was right in front of me. Wow. And I put the gun down and I drove to their house and I passed out when I got there. I'm sure I woke up in the hospital. They brought you to the hospital for well, to make sure I was going to live number one, I, I mean, so in 89, I probably weighed one 55 and I had lost 43 pounds. Okay. So you were very gaunt looking, look, dad spent a couple of days just making sure I was going to live right. And went straight from there into treatment and your home and in Illinois. Yeah. Yep. Um, did a 30 day treatment program, um, got out at noon and was doing cocaine by four o'clock in the afternoon. Just like that. Didn't mot him want to quit because it was awesome. It's phenomenal.
If at that time you had told me you can have cocaine, are women easy decision? 34 days later, four days in regular hospital, 30 days in treatment. I didn't want to quit. There was no part of me that wanted to quit. I loved everything about it. Go back to Carl's house. Two of my other best friends in the world, one of them, their family had such a horrific thing happened to it that my mom and dad took, he and his brother in and they finished high school out of our home, drove by. They were both away at college. Two of my best friends were away at college. They drove by Carl's house and Lo and behold, there was my car and they're like, you gotta be kidding me. And so they busted down the door and I was in mid line. And they abs. They beat me within an inch of my life. Are you serious? Yep. Took all of the cocaine I had imported out into the snow in front of me. Um, and took me home and said, Kristen, Sandy, if you're not gonna do anything about it, we're going to just take him to the police station. Wow. Cause he's gonna die. Thank God this is for real. Well, they haven't spoken to me since then. Oh really?
Which is, that's what I've heard. I'm a former attic door. He is still an addict, but told me once that the degree of addiction is not measured in gallons or grams, but in the destruction of one's relationships.
And I mean you, you say you talk to your mom this past weekend, but I mean those, your relationships for the most part are salvaged
16 months without my parents speaking to me. Hmm. But no, I, there's, I mean I've destroyed, there's uh, the three guys that I would consider to be my formative, like you're best friends. I haven't talked to them in 25 to 30 years because of cocaine. Just a lot of the stuff that you're doing along with that, you know, I mean, look, you're, you're, you're not a choir boy doing cocaine. Right. And there are times where you do things to get it, that if you need a gas for your car, you wouldn't do the things we were doing to get cocaine. You would do whatever you could to get it. Nothing would stop. You know where you also selling it? No. You only, no. No. Why would you say no? I don't know. I want to do it the wrong way. Okay. It's an incoming, not an outgoing, yeah, no.
What was the biggest price you paid? What do you mean? Yeah, that's, well, good question. The biggest price that I paid was that, um, I will never trust myself again or who paid the biggest price? I mean, oh, the addict does. Yeah. Yeah. Those friends write you off and they've got so many other friends, they just don't think about you anymore. You sit there and think, God, if I had just not made that one decision, I'd still have these. Like I'd still have those lifelong friends in place. We had conversations as juniors and seniors in high school about what our families would do together. Years down the road. My Dad's parents were well off. They've got a big cottage up on Lake Michigan. They've got a huge condominium down on longboat key just off of Sarasota, Florida. No, it will. That's where vacation. Um, w they're in longboat harbor towers. They own almost the whole top floor. And we had, you know, we'll have kids and wives and we'll go to your grandparent's place in Florida in the winter and we'll summer up on Lake Michigan. We have plans.
Those are done. They'll never happen. They're all doing it without me. So the addict loses the most and I then the addicts mom runs a close sec. No sure about it. Okay, so you went into treatment first time. Yep. How did you ultimately become sober from you have to want to, so you have to understand you are going to die. That's your option. Very few people survive cocaine. You either stop doing it or you die. There's really very little middle ground, right. There are some people that can do a bumper, two here and there, three or four times a day, go home to their family, leave it at the office, go home to the family, be a great father and husband. Wake up in the morning, get themselves ready to get to the office, do a bumper to do a bump or two at lunch, do a bumper to about three 30 leave it at the office and go home. I'm not that guy
that's gotta be rare. I mean, it seems like it's as rare as you'd think. Well, it seems like such an addictive, um, drug that it would be hard to manage.
I don't think drugs are addictive. I think it's the person and how you manage. I just feel one addiction with another. Yeah. I'm not, I'm still addicted to cocaine. I just don't do it right. But after that, it became money. I wanted all my money back. I had spent every, I mean my grandparents left me in such an incredible place at 19 years old. And by the time I was 20, it was gone and I wanted it back. So and I didn't illegally, I just, you know what, it's time to dig in and rebuild this. Yeah. And you get that rebuilt and then you have goals professionally and I think goals are really good. You can get addicted to,
but it's filling one void with something else. Right. I believe that if you're of the right mind, you could try it once and walk away from it. Not me. That wasn't your personality still isn't. Never will be. Yeah. Through all of this, because let's make no mistake. I was a horrible frickin person. Horrible. Okay. Didn't hurt anybody, didn't, didn't physically or mentally other than my poor parents, but in terms of how God
wants you to lead your life, he had to have been disgusted with me and yet never turned his back. Never. And no matter how hard or fall our are far, I fell. I could always feel him, dusted me off. Yes, by pat and you on the posterior and saying, look, go back on the mountain and keep throwing strikes. Now, as many times as I threw that baseball and hit the mascot instead of throwing a strike is astronomical. If ever he should have given up on someone. It was me.
I want to know like, do you think it was necessary for you to be an addict for you to be the person you are today? I'm no tip. Do you think you would be the father or be the husband that you are if you didn't go through that?
I firmly believe that the plan was set in place before we're ever conceived. I don't know that there was another plan, but what I will tell you is I've spoken to probably 500 to 700 groups and told my story. Um, as painful as it is, if it saved one other life, it's worth it. Absolutely. Um, I speak to groups in Birmingham a lot. You know, they want to know the, the nitty gritty. They want to get into the details. Yeah. You know, and I will if that's what they want. Um, but yeah, unless you've been there, addicts aren't going to trust you there. They're gonna see right through you. They're going to know that you're just another talking head that yeah, you don't know what it's like the hell I down. You've been there. I mean, the longest I went was eight days without slumber.
Eight days on a human body. W very little food. Every time we would snort a line, your stomach was so empty that you would throw up bile. Eight days, eight days water. At least the dark shit you see after eight days of no sleep and heavy cocaine use. Did you sort of hot you hallucinate, I guess that's the right word or you may add a little bit. I guess it's just what runs through your mind. Okay. It's just what runs through your mind. Thoughts and evil. Evil, evil. I mean, I, I've explored corners in my mind that I don't think people realize they have and I don't think that most people would want to.
How do you battle that daily wantonness to, to use it? Um, I, I can't, I don't want to use it right now. Do you have to guard? I mean, even the people that you're around, um, even maybe movies that you watch, is that something you really have to guard your heart with years
to be able to watch? My uncle did the artwork for Scarface. Yeah. One of the most famous cocaine movies ever. Yeah. Um, I watched it when I was 46, 49 now. Um, yeah. You know, there are just things that you realize in life, but there's no one to blame but yourself. It's not like you're ticked off about it. You just steer yourself away from it. I don't run in circles where it's as visible now. We all go to the same church. Somebody in our church is there with it every Sunday morning. So much as I hate to say it, I just don't know who they are and don't care too. So that's the reality of the situation. It's, it's, I promise you it's around you more than you could ever imagine every single day. Are there sure. Signs to spot? No. An addict? No. No, no, because I think very few goes far down that hole as I did. Okay. You know, if you've ever been in a sports car, doing cocaine is continuing to mash the gas. The more you mash the gas, the faster you go on like a sports car that slows down on its own. You just hit a brick wall and the only way to get through it is to mash the gas again. So it's a high speed
car crash though you explain you are saved by your Lord and Savior, Savior. What is something you can share with the listeners that maybe don't share the same belief issue? So for example, it can be maybe, you know, like the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous, what they use.
Yeah, everyone's got a different way of managing. If you don't want to quit, you won't. You won't. I don't care what anyone says. You may have people that tell you, oh, I do the 12 steps and it keeps me away from it. And do you want to quit? And it won't be long. Let's starts with you. It won't be long. You, you absolutely, positively have to want to quit. Now, the only reason, the only reason I'm alive is because of Jesus Christ. There is no other reason and I have seen things and been a part of things that if you don't believe that there's a light on the other side of that, then I feel bad for you because the only way, and I don't know that I'll ever truly love myself, but the only way that I could accept myself again was through God's grace. Um,
It was hard for me to sit in church because I felt so guilty. Yeah, and there'll be many times if you ever set close to me, I'm in tears most of the time because I don't deserve to be there. I look at Delaney and Layton and I look at a woman that was willing to look past my past and accept me for who I was 13 years ago instead of who I was 23 years ago. That's only possible one way because it takes a special person to love a guy like me and that's just reality. I mean, that's not self pity. I don't ask for that at all. That's just real.
What is some advice you give to an addict? Um,
you got to want to quit. If you don't make the decision to quit what is killing you and fill it with something else, then that's going to be your reality and whatever it is that you feel you need to go out and find that makes you want to quit. Find it fast.
Okay. What about advice to a loved one of an addict? Because a lot of times they think you can, they can fix that person or
if you baby them and you continue to love them and support them, they think what they're doing is okay. Just the wrong thing to do. Enabled housing percent. The hardest thing in the world. Imagine if Delaney or Layton got an addiction today and you told me I had to turn them off. That's where it gets real. The person you love more than life itself and you've got to cut them off. That's where it gets real. It sounds easy. No, it sounds awesome. You're the one that has to cut them off. But what I will tell you is if you don't, they're gonna die. It's the only way because you're enabling that. Sure. There is part of the psyche that when you are addicted to something that bad, if someone's still loving you, it's justification. Yeah. All you're doing is helping them kill themselves. No doubt about it.
Friends, family, ministers, counselors, man, if you don't play hardball, you're going to lose them because nowadays, as powerful as these drugs are just start building the casket. And Matthew, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your story. It's really powerful and it's really opened my eyes. It's been an honor. It's incredible. I'm sure. Well, I hope, I pray that there's someone that's, you know, out there listening that um, they really can take to heart what, what you talked about. Well, I'm hopefully going in a better direction. Just remember if, if you are that person, there's somebody that wants to listen to you, Bergen, you want to end that form. Is what you're doing right now more powerful than someone that loves you here in Newberry? That's, I mean, that's the bottom line. Yeah. I mean, I love to listen to those two children breathe. And if a drug took that away from me, I would be, I don't know what I would do. Yeah. That's your why. That's your reason. That's beautiful. So just if you're that person, there's someone else that wants to hear you breathe.
Thank you audience and listeners for tuning in and remember just to share your story because you never know what someone could be going through, um, and the encouragement that they may need. So be that person. Share your story. Remember to follow us on Instagram and Facebook at the winning ugly podcast and Twitter at winning underscore ugly. It's the place where you can find pictures of our guests in lots more. So again, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening guys. When the ugly moments come, remember that light shines brightest in the dark. Love radiates brightest among hate life stance
most boldly against death.