welcome to the winning ugly podcast, a place where we are real, raw, entertaining, energizing, and encouraging. Come experience real conversations that go deep and relationships that extend through the media to overcome testing times. We can't continue to keep our trials and tragic stories to ourselves. The people you will hear from are facing, they're ugly, stepping out of their comfort zone and sharing their victory. Storms are guarantee in life. And when they come, we want to be right here building you up and empowering you to win ugly
welcome to the winning ugly podcast. It's me, your host, Trish. And I have my most favorite
cohost and sidekick and Marie. Yes, I am here and excited about the show and as always, my, uh, my beautiful wife, uh, just getting to be with her is always a lot of fun. So this is gonna be exciting.
You're so kind. Um, hardships, make people's lives difficult. But our next guest beat the odds of homelessness and is now an award winning artist showcasing his art in the very park he lived in. Listeners, I know this may be hard for you to share your hardships of suffering, deprivation and loss and heartache, but I believe if more people were to be open and share personal experiences of their toil and pain, we would be amazed and relieved to see that we are not alone in our hardships or this life. John, welcome to the show.
Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, we're happy to have you, man. We, you know, we finally got our first artists, so I'm glad it's you and yeah, I feel I've been coming. I feel so honored. It's cool man. John with his j o n Jaylee. And of course it is. He's an artist. It's gotta be cool. Right? It's gotta be a cool speller. Be Catchy. That's right. Yeah. Well, John self-taught
Birmingham based contemporary artists. He mainly works with acrylics and um, five and a half years ago you were living in your car and working at a law firm. Correct. Great. And now you showcase your art in the same park you were living. You hold an associates degree in graphic communications and have recently started creating art full time. Which has been your passion since childhood. I kinda want to go over, um, your most recent award, which I think is just so amazing. Um, just a great accomplishment. You recently were chosen of 200 juried fine artists from Alabama and across the u s who gathered in Lynn Park to showcase a broad range of mediums and styles during the magic city art connection, which is Birmingham's largest city center arts festival. And you received an award of distinction. How cool is that? That is such a great accomplishment.
Yes. Um, it was overwhelming for me because that was my first professional art festival and um, preparing for it, I was like anxious and bout to pass out. I didn't even know what to is all the feelings, right. All the fields. But at the same time I knew that it was time for me to showcase my art because I worked from home and just posting it online and Facebook on social media is cool, but to see it in real life, it has more color and it's more, it pops more. Absolutely kind of shows you who I am as an artist without me saying anything. Yeah. But I didn't know you through your art. Right. That's cool. Um, and then you also can like, uh, I guess compare it and I compare me that's a bad word, but see how you stack up maybe against the other artists.
That's true. Right? Yeah. So you would like the underdog. True. Right. You probably had some, some guys they thought, avi, you know, these are some top artists. These guys would probably take it. I was, I was the underdog so to speak. Right. I was, I was sort of intimidated when I first got there. I was looking at everyone else and I was seeing them, uh, seeing them put their tents up and looking at all the beautiful art and everything. I was like, oh, can I really do this? And a lot of people don't realize the day before the actual jury, the process, my broke, Oh man, it actually blew away in the rain. Um, broken other artists tent. That's always like before a judge, before the jury process. And I'm looking like out of all days, you know, what's going to happen. So I just, um, went there with a friend and I said, I just come back tomorrow.
I just walked away from it and I said, I'm made for this. And she's pretty crazy. But I actually went there the next day, the first day before jury, four o'clock in the morning and put everything up because before the, uh, yeah. So a lot of people don't realize that. Yeah. A lot of people don't realize I was crying inside the whole time. I was smiling like green people. Hey, how are you? Greet me. Like, yeah, it was hard. Totally. That's right. Yeah. But for the most part, everything that I did to that process, like pay it off when I won the award, it's like, it was so liberating. I just went behind a tree and cried when I wanted it. Man. Yeah. There literally tears. This happened, this happened two years ago. It was joyful sauce. Right. Thank you.
Um, and for those of you that may want to buy his art, you normally sell online and showcase it on Instagram. Correct. And we will link your, um, website to the, in the show notes so people can actually find you. Okay, good. And what I want to know, what influences you as an artist or how do you get creative?
Um, most of the time I love to, I love people and I love how the way people interact in. So when I became homeless, my perspective changed of how we needed each other. So basically my, the theme of my work is like interconnectivity. It's like, you know, sometimes we judge people before we even get a chance to hear them talk and everyone has a story and sometimes we just have to just sit there and, and even though they have a view or something that you really, it you were, we've been born and raised in conditions how to be who we are, but sometimes you learn so much by just listening to someone. So I just kind of, um, get inspiration from, um, the way we treat people or we have a lot of negative things that are going on in our lives or in the world. And I just want to use my artists being that positive thing in a sense. It brings them happiness. Invite people.
Right. Very cool. Well Great. Um, what about, I mean, do you ever, are you ever moved by, I don't know, nature or animals or anything like that?
Most of my works have birds, um, and have symbolisms in it. Um, leaves it sometimes it was like why you use leaves a lot? Basically I think about leaves as, um, my meaning of leaves is that we all like growing trees. And your leaves could be when the leaves are on the tree. It could be we're growing and maturing or when the leaves leave, the tree is more like a memory. It's like the past. It's like, so I have like everything that's in my art has a meaning to it and you probably probably have to print something out so you can understand everything going on in your art. Yes. There's a lot going on in my art, so yeah.
So you said you print something out. Do you have a writeup that goes with each painting?
Yes, I'm, I'm starting to do that because a lot of, um, people that have been collecting my art, they was like, well, they want to know first of all, how did I come up with the title? So most of my titles are actually songs. So you Google it, it would take you to the artist, it will tell you everything and the song lyrics. So I used to start like that, but now I'm starting to branch out and doing like more of poetry, just being more open to where I was when I was creating the PR people collecting your art. Yeah. That's got to feel good just saying that. Yes. Yes. That's so cool. Yeah.
Okay. That's really awesome. Um, well before we move into your story, um, we always kind of ask a few fun questions. The first one I want to ask you, do you remember your first job as a kid?
Yes. My first job as a kid was, um, hoes used to cut grass when I was, um, 11 years old. So I'll use to cut from grass from my grandparents and for, you know, my household. Sure. Surely. But period of time everyone
was like, oh he does a great job. So eventually kind of made it kind of bitchy led to a job which I enjoyed at the age sugar, you know I was able to, you know, save money. Oh what else? Young. Pretty Classy, right? Cause crashes a kid or yeah, I love to cut grass actually. I love to see like the progress, like when you, you see all the long grass and then once like as you, you know, progress. It just looks like all manicured and beautiful and I'm just like, yes. And I'll actually prefer to push over drive a Mo. Wait, what is it called? A push lawn mower versus a driving a little bit more, whatever it's called. Sometimes my OCD kicks in and so I'm looking at the lines and in the grind, I know it's out there. If it's therapeutic, I like to bring this up every show.
But what was your first job? I have something to do with turtle eggs. I used to clean fertile eggs. That was my first job. Look at your face guy. If you guys out there cutting grass. I was like, of course. It was interesting. You talk more about that later. Yeah, exactly man. All right, so a, I know, I'm sure you like music. So what's, what's a song you listening to right now? Um, right now I am eight. It varies for me. Um, when it comes to music I really can't just come off the top of my head. Okay. What type of music? Let's start with that. I'm into like EDM or like peer mentor. Like so many. It's so many different miles. Davis, Miles Davis. That's true. Listen to my old days, Davis for my recent, my last piece of stuff, I knew it. I felt that that's my favorite artist.
Yeah. Mosaic. It's always like jazz influenced or either any rd to like I'm liking somewhere in that mind frame with them. It sounds like music and artists who listened to it. That's about right. I liked that. Artists like what's your go to most often used Emoji when texting. Oh, always smiley face. Smiley face. Oldie but goodie. Yeah, because you can't beat that. Yeah. Cause sometimes my friends are saying I'm having a bad day and I just like smile. So it's just easy. So of course instead of, you know, sending them like a long smile. Um, do you like coffee or tea? Oh definitely. Coffee. How do you drink your coffee? Sometimes I drink he just straight black or man or either with Stevia. Just put a little Stevie. Okay. A little natural. We used to drink coffee with Stevia and I don't know but I find it tastes like wood. Oh I never saw, I'm raising my hand right now. It's never happened to me and it just tastes like so I don't even use steamy anymore. Do you use the liquid or the questions to crystals and stuff? Maybe that mess. I'm going to ask the next question. Instagram or Facebook, but I think it's pretty obvious being that you're in order Instagram cause it's, is pretty
much how I got started into like sharing my art and how we came a little popular through Instagram. It's an easy way to plug your page cause it's swipe and is very inactive. So what's your handle? Um, it is j o h mo
d e C o. R or do you just type in John of John of art with Jaylee n. Cool. John of art. People will find you. I will make sure we're very cool. Well, as you share your redemptive story from homelessness to being an award winning artist, let's move into your story of hardships. I know you will have a lot of encouragement and wisdom to share with us. I want you to start from the beginning when your parents, um, became ill.
Um, yes. Um, mom, my mom, when I was living in Montgomery I was just um, actually working at uh, a print production company called Rico. Um, I was one of the technicians there and um, I was in a, I was, I was in a good relationship, but it pretty much didn't work out that much. So over time, you know, I just kind of lived this regular life and try to figure out who I, who I was as a person and now being, you know, gay and, and being who I was, I was just trying to still figure things out from college. And, um, all the time, my mom, my mom became ill and it was just a short period of time before she passed away, um, from kidney failure. Um, she had started dialysis, like I'll say, four months into actually being diagnosed. And so from that point, um, as she passed away, that was like, I was like a Momma's boy, so it was Kinda just hard to even grass, you know, with not having your mom.
It's like that, that bill umbilical cord was cut again and it's that rock that you can always rely on and go back to. Right, right. And as long as we talked every day and like she was like my, my go to person. So after that, after she passed away, I was like, I don't have anything, you know, here Montgomery for me. And plus I wanted to pursue my art. Yeah. And be more around a more diverse group or just need a change of scenery, so please, you can breathe. Right. You know, it's like, and be more freer in my sexuality, but you know, if you could just be that anyway, but I didn't know at the time I still was kind of, you know, in the crazy spot. Um, and discovery. And so, um, so one day I just told I'll just call up my, my closest sister and I told her, I said, I can't do Montgomery anymore, so I'm just gonna move to, and I said Birmingham. And she just looked at me and she's like, oh, really? I was like, yeah, so next, um, between the next couple of weeks I just went ahead and transferred my job, sold everything in my apartment itself, things as many things I could feed in my car. Right. I'm a 2009 Kia Spectra. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Kia is a big car moving people around. Very large car. But no, it wasn't, it was very small, but
[inaudible] may mouth my way here to Birmingham. That's actually really cool because it's similar to Emory and I mean, we've already, once in our life sold everything and moved. So it's very freeing. Right? It's fear free and it is okay to start over. And now we're at the point, I'm trying, there's a book out there. It's called cozy minimalist. I think it's by Michael Lynn Smith. Michael. It is Michael. And who? Michael and Smith. She's the cozy minimalist. Well we are extreme minimalist so I'm trying to think about doing it. It's good. It's, it's a, it's a nice, flexible, freeing feeling. So since we sold everything, we haven't acquired many things. So we're trying to be cozy now. I know that though. This is a new development cause see I'm naturally a minimalist and I'm okay with that. But apparently people have come to the house and said, Oh are you guys moving?
Right. I didn't know that. They never told me that. When she told me, she's like, yeah, they say say that and I'm like, you should get more stuff. You should see me in my partner's home right now. He's more of a mental minimalist too. And so people walk in and it's like, hey, we don't have pictures on a wall. Have like a cell phone. That's how we are in a table. And a TV. We don't even have a grandparent grand piano and it's like, so we don't even want a piano. So it just kinda re structured anything. Y'All all need to read the book and apparently it'd be more cozy with our minimalism, but at the same time I don't want to freak people out because I, one time I was like starting to wear like by like five for the same pair of the same shirts and then five of the same pair of pants.
So people was like, you had that on yesterday. I didn't want to get to the point where I'm getting myself to everyone. But on Tuesday really helps though. I mean, okay, so you moved to Birmingham and you transferred your job, which was in the printing print production production. Okay. Well how did you go, um, go into the law firm? Basically the print production company had a contract with the law firm. So we actually just, it was the same company, but we just basically outsourced. We just did everything for them. Okay. So you did that and how long you were here, how long have you been in Birmingham? It's about to be eight years. Oh Wow. Yeah. That's a long time. So kind of bring us to the point. Like what, how did you fall on hard hardships? Hard time.
Well, I feel it on hard times because I feel for a relationship with a guy and um, I actually moved in with him and everything was, was good until it just like something just started to be this just not right. And um, he ended up putting me out one day. I was actually in my pajamas with a t shirt on doing laundry. He just had came from home from work and to get out my house and I'm like, okay, are you serious? And so we just went into this whole like argument, just, just trying to, I'm just trying to figure out what was going on with him. And so he called the police on me and so the police only gave me like five minutes or seven minutes to get what I needed. Gotcha. And so I was actually just feel my car up again.
Right then, you know. And at this point I had built a relationship with this person. Like we had at least about like $15,000 in electronics. We, like, we had so much together that I was just kinda like, okay, it's falling apart again. You know, what is happening with my life. I feel like I broke a mirror, you know, had seven years of bad luck. Right. But at the same time, I kind of just just winged it and just went, um, feel my car with stuff and just kinda of abiding by the law because I didn't want to get arrested. Right. What are you going to do at that point? And from there, you know, trying to figure things out. Um, and I kind of, I found out later on that he had an undiagnosed mental illness. And so at that point I didn't, if I would have known what that was, you know, I probably would've approached it another way.
But I tried to reach back out to get my stuff. And by the time I got my s my clothing and everything else, it was ruined, like in the bags and stuff. So I had to just throw away and I used to dress very nice. Like Bert brothers, like everything was expensive. I'm very, like I could say I was materialistic. Classy. Yeah. I was classy man. But, um, it Kinda just changed my, my way of thinking of how we put, you know, we've got to worry about these labels and stuff like that. So, and that Kinda led me into like having everything and to having nothing, you know. So I found my, I looked around, I found myself being homeless, living in my car and I kind of sucked it up. And, um, at first I was going to reach out and tell my sisters more.
I told one of my sisters, but at the same time I father, my father, our father just had passed away from massive heart attack that, that following, um, Christmas, not Christmas, but on December the 16th. So what month roughly did you become homeless? Um, it was like into like Jean or February of the next year, so, and so with that I was going to tell them, but, and then my sister, she was going through hardships. Um, she just had gone through battle or losing her home. And plus we had to actually pay out of pocket for my dad's funeral because it's, his insurance kind of lapsed, basically laughed. So we had to come up. So that was like the gist of like how do you, how do you be creative on surviving? Like you know, cause cause at that point when being homeless, I was like being like the way I think I was getting all the lists of all the foundations and all the nonprofit organizations.
I actually did work in try to get someone to get, give assistance, I'll call at least about 30 different foundations. And if you didn't really have a kid, I see, okay. You know, you can just like you didn't have a kid or you, you're a man and you have a job. Sure. And you don't have a place to stay. And was like, I'm sorry sir, we can't help you. I understand. It was like getting, that was like the biggest pill to swallow.
And at that time I didn't have a lot of friends here. So and then no on top of that, I think a, it was basically a sense of pride. You know, how we are, you know, those times in my life where I did things on my own and I was able to provide, but yeah, that sense was taken away. So that's tough.
Yeah. And so basically I just kinda say, you wanna know what the place that I actually work at has a gym with showers. And so I just kinda got innovative with the way I did things. So I would wake up early in the morning and I will go to a shell station, brush my teeth and freshen up. Then I would go in workout, take a shower, put my work clothes on, cause we had uniforms and I would just go in and with a smile on my face and just work like nothing's wrong. You're like, Johnny is ripped. Yeah. Yeah. He's working out every morning man and just kind of send money here to, you know, for my family. And that was stuff. And then save a little bit for me for gas and um, or a period of time I realized that, you know, I was looking around and I used to park in the third parking spot on the left side of Lin parked facing about, well every now and uh, and I would notice that a lot of people were still sleeping in land park especially, it was getting, sometimes it would get very cold.
So I was just like, y'all hop in my car. So, so basically I, I found another family, like it was like, I can't explain it. It's like this other form of like community. Like I would have like a mother with two kids and they're in the back seat and we were just like, listen to music and just talking about life. And it's, it's like, it helps me to get this sense of like, I understand the of, of not just only people, but just being, just being human and how we just reconnect. So mobile shelter. Yeah. And it was, it was, it was kind of gratifying. It was kind of freeing and that's cool. And you feel like you're, it's empowering maybe a little bit because you're sort of doing something for someone else. Even in your, you're in a situation, right? Maybe a step above there is maybe, I don't know how you would put that, but it's, it's sort of empowering, right?
In a way. It just helped me to kind of cope cause I needed it. I needed community, you know, I needed, I needed to be around people cause it's a lonely process to just, you know, wake up early in the morning and then go to work and knowing that he got to dry right down to Lynn Parker. But you gotta make sure you look around and make sure no one's following you. You know, know that you sleeping in your car until, um, one one day, um, one of my coworkers said, let's go out to dinner one night. Let's go to dinner tonight. I was like, okay, a kind of natural light a little bit. Then he was like, we'd go eat anywhere you want to go. And I was like, something counted up with this. But I just kind of played it off. So I set subway on all places.
It's like, so all please. Yeah, man. So we ended up going to the south way in Homewood and, uh, we just, he's always been like a cool coworker. We were really kind of close, a little bit closer. And then other coworkers, he said, where are you living? I said, he said in your car? And I was like, yeah. And that's when I had like, uh, like this moment where it was like this opportunity to share what I was going through. Right. And I just, I just broke down crying. I came eat my sub at that point, but, uh, rule my subway man go way back. But I just broke down and, uh, I just told him everything and he saw it in the kindness of his heart. He just had got engaged and planning for a wedding and went to the ATM and gave me $500 and said, get you a hotel room.
And so with me in a hotel room, I had actually had time to, you know, go on craigslist and in research and found me a roommate. And it's crazy that, uh, the roommate that I found was a, uh, a guy in a wheelchair that used to talk to all the Tyrell on my lunch breaks when I walk out. Yeah. His name was Renard and I used to talk to him all the time, so he just like hands down, say, come on, move in. And we became like best friends. That's cool. Um, so we ended up, I ended up staying at park place apartments
downtown and so it was even easier for me to commute to work. I could walk to work at this point. So I was able to get on my feet from there and he was just like a big brother. Um, yeah.
What a good friend. Wow. Big support. He ended up passing away too. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, from the, he had pneumonia. Okay. Yeah, he ended up passing away. So it seems like it's kind of crazy how, you know, sometimes we can meet people, but we never know what they're going through and how that, just that one moment of just talking with them, they, their life is gone. Like your life could be gone in an instant. Yeah. And so my way of looking at things that are so magnified that sometimes I can't, it kind of freaks me out a little bit. So, but, but it's a time, um, Art Canada helps me to yeah. Kind of tell that story for, yeah, it's cool.
Um, I know you were, you really encouraged, you are saying by certain people I'm even Renard, but, um, how were you, I know you had to be struggling in your mind mentally. I mean, uh, successful, you know, you have a career and then now you're homeless. I want you to walk us through that mental state you were in.
Well, at first I was, I was looking at actually having liked this pity party, um, with myself of saying, you know, how did I get here? It was out of because of this, you know, and, and, and that could be in my PD part party all day. But
I think like, um, most of the time music kinda helped me out. Like, sometimes I, I'll listen to like these certain songs that I know that make me feel good. And also a lot of people didn't realize like at that point in time and in that time I was homeless. The parking spot, um, little markings on the ground there turned across as to me, there were like the parking spot. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I will look at the ground sometimes when I'm feeling down, I'll look at the ground and then make crosses instead of just being a parking spot. Marketing. Yeah. So it's like I was kind of reminded myself that, you know, in order to get through this you've got to have some kind of faith, you know? And it's like, you know, and I was actually looking at it and say, this could be worse.
You know, you can not sure. I was fortunate to have a car. Sure. You know, so I was able to go to point a and point B with things. So it's just like, don't, don't, um, look at what you don't have, look at what you have. And it's like looking inward and say what can I do with it? But the thing, yeah, it's like my perspective kind of kind of changed over time. That's a great lesson. We can relate to that. I mean, we unfortunately bought a terrible business that we didn't realize at the moment, but um, it only took a small amount of time to realize that the guy really kind of cooked the books. Right? We almost went bankrupt and we were like, we only had a $5 a day budget on food and like, well, we're going to do Emory. Of course, the natural way I was going was I put my head down, I'm so sad.
And he was like, you can keep your head up and see the blessings that are in front of you. We live on the number one beach in the United States, so what are you crying about? Like let's pick it up and hey, do you know, do life with what we have. So we did. And it's just, you know, I mean, it's all about perspective. So, and sometimes we could be going through things and we were looking on the inside. We're not looking at the big picture. We got so much Tom all like going around a kiosk that we're outbreak is a condition just to, to get taken up in that. And sometimes you just gotta like take a deep breath or just kind of say, let me take a walk or just kinda get away from this to to look at it again. Yeah, just like plants.
As you take my glasses off, I'm not going to be able to see. So he's like reminding that you, you know, you know, to have that kind of outlook on it. Um, what is something you learned that can be applied to a future situation? It's okay to ask for help. I like to get it. Yeah, because you can't, you can't do this alone and uh, no matter what kind of situation, why are, don't be afraid to ask for help cause you'd be overwhelmed. The people that would help you out. I mean where this friends, family or strangers, you will be pleasantly shocked if you just say I need help. You know the relationships you developed. Right. You know, with you that did you the and yes. Had a hand in, you know, your development or your moving forward, your progress. Yes. That's really cool man. Right. And I just think it just helps us like kind of how our stated that in the beginning, like if we are so open with what we're dealing with and we just reach out to people. Right. I think more people will be open to sharing what they're dealing with and we can all just come together and build up each other and you know, I just think you will be, we will be in a different world if we all would do that. Yeah.
Especially dropping a sense of knowing it all. You know, sometimes I, sometimes I have that problem with saying I know, yeah I know how to do this. It's like I know you need to, you need to be asking questions about this cause it's not my expertise. Right. So I'm learning how to, to reach out to people and say, Hey, can you overlook this for me because I want to make sure I got this right. So it's all in like asking for help. You're not sure what is, what is the win for you? Oh, the win is actually this Ashley have life, like to be able to do like what I, what I said at seven years old when I told my mom I wanted to do that seven, I want to be artist. And he knew from a young age. Yeah, that's really cool. Yes.
Yeah. All I was screaming, I want to be honest. I want to be artist. Then it's like, yeah, but you probably want to go to school via engineer. You know, it's like that thing and it's like fighting against that being a, um, a look, you know, a kid growing up that part of me, the creative style was kind of never nurtured. But I got into project management out of this too, which I'm able to use for like time management while it's still on my business sense now. But yeah. But at the same time it was still, and I was still wasn't completely happy until what I'm doing now. So,
well artfully speaking, where do you want to be in the future? Maybe say 10 years from now,
10 years from now, I wouldn't mind having a, um, uh, build a building and a studio space. Okay. We can display your art. Well, I could display my art and consult emerging artists, like a, almost like an art hub for resources of people that started out because um, I just want to be able to help other creatives to get, you know, no matter what kind of art you do a can of want to be able to help other artists kind of get,
you know, a safe place. Oh yeah. And get that nurturing. Right. Yeah. Awesome. What would you say to someone who is going through some type of hardship knowing that they are worthy? How are you reaching others? Um, I mean, I'm sure you meet people that are going through hardships in your daily life.
I've been actually be able to, um, reach people by networking actually as an, as an artist. And, um, and just share my story. Worried
like you're doing right here. Yeah. Share my story. Hot Shit. Yeah. Stories powerful. Yeah. The story is very powerful. Yeah. Well actually that's my, it must be working because we're going to be interviewing another artist here in the coming weeks. And she referred you. So yogi. Yeah. Yeah. I actually just, I should just loved her business plan seminar before I came here called. Um, no, is Yogi Yogi Dot Oz
business planning seminar. Okay. I knew she did a seminars but I didn't know the name of it exactly. So just left her. I just left her seminar, came in and she's really, she's like, buy this. Like my sister man. Like we, we talk about, we can talk about anything. It's like we've known each other for years. It's good to have that person. And we kinda connect through art and share like the ins and outs of the art world. So he's like, that's a great thing to have like a friendship and a relationship like that. Yeah. Beautiful. Well that is awesome. Um, well, we are so thankful for you being on the show and just sharing, um, your story of hardships. Um, so we want to thank you and thank the audience. Yes.
Yeah. No, I appreciate you being open to share your story. I mean, I'm sure there's people out there this is gonna resonate with and yeah, hopefully they know, just keep on plugging away. That's right. Thank you for having me in other problems. So subscribe to the podcast, leave a rating and review. It helps by making our podcast more visible to others. Lastly, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. I encourage someone today and share your story. Thanks for listening guys. When the ugly moments come, remember that light shines brightest in the dark. Love radiates brightest among paid life stands most boldly against.